Legislature(2001 - 2002)

04/02/2001 03:20 PM House L&C

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
          HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                         
                         April 2, 2001                                                                                          
                           3:20 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Lisa Murkowski, Chair                                                                                            
Representative Andrew Halcro, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative Kevin Meyer                                                                                                      
Representative Pete Kott                                                                                                        
Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                                                                  
Representative Harry Crawford                                                                                                   
Representative Joe Hayes                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
SUBCOMMITTEE REPORT:  AVIATION INSURANCE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 186                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to a municipal enhanced 911 surcharge on                                                                       
wireless telephones."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 152                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to brewpub licenses."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     - BILL HEARING POSTPONED TO 4/6/01                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 147                                                                                                              
"An Act amending a definition of 'wages' for purposes of Title                                                                  
36 of the Alaska Statutes to include payments for travel                                                                        
expenses and per diem."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     - BILL HEARING POSTPONED TO 4/6/01                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 186                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:911 SURCHARGE ON WIRELESS TELEPHONES                                                                                
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)MEYER                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
03/15/01     0609       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
03/15/01     0609       (H)        CRA, L&C                                                                                     
03/22/01     0684       (H)        CRA RPT 4DP                                                                                  
03/22/01     0684       (H)        DP: SCALZI, MURKOWSKI,                                                                       
                                   KERTTULA, MEYER                                                                              
03/22/01     0684       (H)        FN1: ZERO(H.CRA)                                                                             
03/22/01                (H)        CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
03/22/01                (H)        Moved Out of Committee                                                                       
03/22/01                (H)        MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                  
04/02/01                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
KEVIN HAND, Staff                                                                                                               
to Representative Andrew Halcro                                                                                                 
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 414                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented the aviation subcommittee report                                                                 
on behalf of Representative Andrew Halcro.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MARK JOHNSON, Chief                                                                                                             
Section of Community Health and Emergency Medical Services                                                                      
Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS)                                                                                 
P.O. Box 110616                                                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska  99811-0616                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 186.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DANIEL YOUMANS                                                                                                                  
AT&T Wireless Services, Inc.                                                                                                    
617 Eastlake Avenue East                                                                                                        
Seattle, Washington  98109                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 186 in support of an                                                                       
enhanced 911 surcharge.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
TIM BIGGANE, Director                                                                                                           
Emergency Operations                                                                                                            
Fairbanks North Star Borough (FNSB)                                                                                             
P.O. Box 55274                                                                                                                  
North Pole, Alaska  99705                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 186.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
TIM ROGERS, Legislative Program Coordinator                                                                                     
Municipality of Anchorage                                                                                                       
P.O. Box 196650                                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska  99519                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 186.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
THERESA HILLHOUSE, Assistant Municipal Attorney                                                                                 
Civil Division                                                                                                                  
Municipality of Anchorage Department of Law                                                                                     
P.O. Box 196650                                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska  99519                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 186.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
BILL GIFFORD, Lieutenant                                                                                                        
Anchorage Police Department (APD)                                                                                               
4501 South Bragaw                                                                                                               
Anchorage, Alaska  99508                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 186.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
STEVE O'CONNOR, Chair                                                                                                           
Kenai Peninsula Borough 911 Committee                                                                                           
231 South Binkley                                                                                                               
Soldotna, Alaska  99669                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 186.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-45, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI called  the House  Labor  and Commerce  Standing                                                               
Committee meeting to  order at 3:20 p.m.  Present  at the call to                                                               
order  were  Representatives   Murkowski,  Halcro,  Meyer,  Kott,                                                               
Rokeberg, Crawford, and Hayes.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SUBCOMMITTEE REPORT:  AVIATION INSURANCE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI announced  that the  committee would  first hear                                                               
the aviation  insurance report from the  subcommittee assigned by                                                               
the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0081                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN HAND,  Staff to Representative Andrew  Halcro, Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, reported that aviation  insurance rates have doubled                                                               
and  even tripled  in  recent  years.   Alaska  air carriers  are                                                               
feeling  the pressure  of increased  rates,  and those  increases                                                               
will  likely  put  some  air  carriers  out  of  business.    The                                                               
subcommittee met  and discussed a  number of options.   Among the                                                               
most  seriously considered  options  were  insurance pooling  and                                                               
tort reform.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HAND noted that crashes  are the primary reason for increased                                                               
rates  in  Alaska.    One  crash  can  cost  insurance  companies                                                               
hundreds of millions  of dollars and have an effect  on every air                                                               
carrier in the state.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1551                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.   HAND  noted   that  pilot   inexperience  is   the  primary                                                               
contributor to air crashes in  Alaska.  Because of the nationwide                                                               
shortage of  pilots, many young,  inexperienced pilots  are eager                                                               
to  take  Bush-piloting jobs  to  gain  enough flight  hours  for                                                               
employment with  the larger airlines.   Therefore, Alaska's small                                                               
air carriers  typically employ younger, less  experienced pilots,                                                               
flying in more challenging environments  and locales.  These same                                                               
pilots  may also  take unnecessary  risks by  flying in  marginal                                                               
weather to  gain those  flight hours.   But with  the unforgiving                                                               
weather  conditions   in  Alaska,   even  the   most  experienced                                                               
pilots/operators  have  accidents.   Mr.  Hand  stated  that  air                                                               
carriers need to foster a  safety culture to reduce accidents and                                                               
thus insurance rates.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. HAND  stated that insurance  pooling is one way  to alleviate                                                               
some  of the  pressures on  air carriers.   Opponents  argue that                                                               
there is no  reason for [state] government involvement.   But, he                                                               
noted, a case could be made  that commercial aviation is the only                                                               
link to  hospitals and  other areas  of the  state's off-the-road                                                               
system.  Therefore, government should get involved.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2080                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HAND noted  that many  insurance companies  argue that  tort                                                               
reform is  the only real  solution to decreased  insurance rates.                                                               
In this  litigious society,  with jury awards  on the  rise, this                                                               
would create a tangible limit [to the size of awards].                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO remarked  that the state needs  to be aware                                                               
of this serious issue.   Some small, responsible air carriers may                                                               
have  to  close  their  businesses   because  of  the  exorbitant                                                               
insurance rates.   Air transportation is Alaska's  life link, and                                                               
Alaska is the  only place where single air carriers  are the link                                                               
to  hospitals  and other  services.    He  suggested that  if  it                                                               
weren't  for the  small air  carriers,  the state  would have  to                                                               
provide air service in and out of rural communities.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HALCRO stated  that he  would continue,  over the                                                               
next  months,  looking  into  the   different  options  and  will                                                               
consider  legislation   addressing  tort  reform   and  insurance                                                               
pooling for air carriers.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-45, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 0411                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI recommended  that the committee consider                                                               
the options brought forth by  the subcommittee.  She acknowledged                                                               
that there  are no  easy answers, but  recognized that  the state                                                               
has an obligation to look into this issue carefully.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0557                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI called  an at-ease  to transition  to the  House                                                               
Labor and  Commerce Standing Committee's  scheduled bills.   [End                                                               
of Tape 01-45, Side B.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB 186-911 SURCHARGE ON WIRELESS TELEPHONES                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-46, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0050                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI announced  that the  committee would  hear HOUSE                                                               
BILL  NO. 186,  "An  Act  relating to  a  municipal enhanced  911                                                               
surcharge on wireless telephones."                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0136                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER,  speaking  as   the  sponsor  of  HB  186,                                                               
explained that the enhanced 911  system provides the location and                                                               
telephone number  of the  person calling 911;  this is  useful in                                                               
case  the person  calling isn't  able  to articulate  his or  her                                                               
location,  for  whatever reason.    It  provides the  technology,                                                               
equipment,   and  staff   necessary   for   fast  response,   and                                                               
automatically routes  the 911  call to either  the police  or the                                                               
fire department.  Currently, wireless-telephone  users make up 25                                                               
percent  of the  total  911 volume.    Wireless phones  currently                                                               
don't have  the enhanced 911  capabilities, so any  procedures in                                                               
place now for  the landline [phones] must  be handled differently                                                               
for wireless  calls; hence it  is much  less efficient at  a time                                                               
when efficiency could be a matter of life or death.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER  said  currently with  landline  phones  in                                                               
Anchorage, Anchorage can impose a  911 surcharge of 50 cents; all                                                               
other communities with  the enhanced 911 system can  impose up to                                                               
75 cents.   He  said he  thought the  committee would  hear today                                                               
from  some of  the communities  throughout the  state.   He added                                                               
that  the surcharge  currently doesn't  include  the wireless  or                                                               
cell phones.   Charging  the surcharge  on landline  [phones] was                                                               
made  possible by  legislation  passed in  1994  by Senator  Drue                                                               
Pearce,  he   said,  and  HB   186  amends  this,   allowing  the                                                               
municipalities  with the  enhanced 911  system service  to impose                                                               
the same  surcharge on wireless  phones as for  landlined phones,                                                               
if desired.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0241                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER  stated that this enhanced  911 surcharge is                                                               
not unique  to Alaska; many cities  in the Lower 48  have charges                                                               
that are  significantly higher than  what [Alaska] has.   He said                                                               
items  contained in  the  committee file  include:   the  sponsor                                                               
statement;  a  letter   from  the  deputy  chief   of  police  in                                                               
Anchorage;  a  letter  of  support  from  George  Wuerch,  Mayor,                                                               
Municipality  of  Anchorage;  a sectional  analysis  from  Tamara                                                               
Cook,   Director,  Legislative   Legal  and   Research  Services,                                                               
Legislative  Affairs Agency,  who  worked with  attorneys in  and                                                               
outside  the industry  within the  Municipality  of Anchorage;  a                                                               
letter of support from the  Anchorage Municipal League of Cities;                                                               
and  letters  of  conditional support  from  the  major  carriers                                                               
including  AT&T  and Alaska  Communications  Systems  (ACS).   He                                                               
indicated there was verbal support from GCI as well.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO pointed out a  suggestion made by AT&T in a                                                               
letter dated March  22, 2001, to have a uniform  level of charge,                                                               
50  cents, for  all municipalities.    He said  this makes  sense                                                               
because with a  lot of wireless companies, a person  can take his                                                               
or her  phone and  roam all over  the state.   He asked  what the                                                               
rational  was  for  the difference  between  municipalities  with                                                               
fewer than 100,000 people and those with more than 100,000.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER  responded that in the  smaller communities,                                                               
not as many  people are paying, so [companies]  wanted the option                                                               
to go up to 75 cents.   Many times the equipment, technology, and                                                               
staffing are  just as expensive  in Bethel, for example,  as they                                                               
are in Anchorage,  but there aren't as many people  paying in; so                                                               
[companies] want to have the flexibly  to charge a little more if                                                               
necessary.  When  asked about the process of how  the money would                                                               
get from  the consumer to the  municipality, Representative Meyer                                                               
replied  that the  committee would  hear more  about the  details                                                               
[from  the companies];  however, his  understanding was  that the                                                               
three  major carriers  would collect  the money  via the  monthly                                                               
bill, would  keep up to  1 percent for administrative  costs, and                                                               
then   would  turn   over  the   remainder   to  the   respective                                                               
municipalities.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  asked how  the resellers account  for it                                                               
because there are a lot of resellers in the wireless business.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER deferred  the question  to the  testifiers,                                                               
but he asked for an example.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he has  a cell phone from a reseller                                                               
that buys time and  space in bulk amounts and then  sells it at a                                                               
discount in the marketplace.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER said there could  only be one charge; if the                                                               
billing address  was in Anchorage,  for example, then  the person                                                               
would  pay the  fee  in Anchorage,  and if  in  Denver, then  the                                                               
person would  pay whatever the  surcharge is  in Denver.   And he                                                               
clarified that  if a person  had both  a landline and  a wireless                                                               
phone, the  surcharge would have to  be paid for both  of them if                                                               
the phone numbers were different.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0617                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MARK JOHNSON,  Chief, Section of  Community Health  and Emergency                                                               
Medical  Services,  Department  of  Health  and  Social  Services                                                               
(DHSS), said  he would speak  on behalf of the  emergency medical                                                               
providers  who [receive  calls]  sometimes and  don't know  where                                                               
they are  coming from, which  was the  reason for putting  in the                                                               
enhanced  911 system  for the  wire-line telephone  system a  few                                                               
years ago.   That service provides  [phone] number identification                                                               
of where the call is coming from  as well as the location.  There                                                               
are times when people don't know where they are, he emphasized.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON explained  that in busier areas,  [911 operators] get                                                               
a lot of calls at the same  time, which means that they need more                                                               
capacity  to respond  to those  because many  people will  see an                                                               
occurrence, for example,  and call in at the same  time.  This is                                                               
good service and does save lives.   Some states are showing up to                                                               
40 percent of calls coming  from wireless communications; it is a                                                               
growing problem and this is a good solution.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0729                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HALCRO  asked  how   many  communities  have  the                                                               
enhanced 911 system in place.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JOHNSON  replied  that  it   is  more  or  less  the  larger                                                               
communities in the state, but [the  section] would like to see it                                                               
statewide  at some  point in  time.   Regarding  a public  safety                                                               
answering point, he said most  now have the 911 enhanced service;                                                               
however,  there  are communities  that  have  a remote  answering                                                               
[service]  whereby  the  trooper,  for example,  will  answer  on                                                               
behalf of the community someplace  else, and some of those aren't                                                               
covered at  the moment.   He said he would  get the list  for the                                                               
committee.  When  asked if the larger communities  [that have the                                                               
enhanced  service] include  Anchorage, Fairbanks,  Juneau, Kenai,                                                               
and  Palmer,  Mr. Johnson  responded  that  it  is even  down  to                                                               
communities of a few thousand, although  he would have to look at                                                               
that list again.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT  asked Mr. Johnson  if he's seen  an enhanced                                                               
system.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON replied affirmatively.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT  asked if a  Global Positioning  System (GPS)                                                               
location would be received with the cellular system.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JOHNSON   replied  affirmatively.    He   said  the  Federal                                                               
Communication  Commission (FCC)  has been  working on  this issue                                                               
with the industry  for a number of years.   A couple of different                                                               
technology  and  telecommunication  experts   may  be  online  to                                                               
testify,  he said.    One of  the proposed  solutions  was a  GPS                                                               
solution, he explained,  and in some places  a terrestrial system                                                               
can be used  to triangulate, but there is a  mandate now from the                                                               
FCC  that  the  location  identification be  implemented  by  the                                                               
wireless industry.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0865                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG pointed  out that in the  letter from ACS                                                               
it says that this technology isn't  even available right now.  He                                                               
asked if that is correct.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON  referred to the letter  from the FCC and  said there                                                               
are technological solutions to this  problem.  A number of places                                                               
across the country are doing  what [Alaska] is contemplating now.                                                               
He said  he believes  that the technology  is available,  but not                                                               
fully implemented.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO asked for  clarification on the letter from                                                               
ACS.   He said when he  had previously asked about  the number of                                                               
communities  that  have  the enhanced  911  system,  Mr.  Johnson                                                               
responded that  there were quite  a few; however, the  ACS letter                                                               
says the "currently unavailable technology."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON  replied that what  is currently available  in Alaska                                                               
is for the  wire-line telephones from businesses and  homes.  And                                                               
when asked if enhanced 911 [service]  for cell phones is in place                                                               
anywhere in the state, Mr. Johnson responded in the negative.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0962                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT said  he understood  that the  technology is                                                               
not available yet either.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DANIEL    YOUMANS,   AT&T    Wireless    Services,   Inc.,    via                                                               
teleconference, said AT&T  is a big supporter  of 911 [services].                                                               
The  combination  of cellular  phones  and  the 911  network  has                                                               
created  a  new and  vital  communication  system for  customers.                                                               
[AT&T]  knows  from the  thousands  of  calls  made to  911  from                                                               
cellular  phones every  day in  the United  States that  this has                                                               
become a valuable  service.  Thus AT&T supports  a reasonable and                                                               
equitable surcharge on  customers to defer the  cost of providing                                                               
911 services.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS said in terms  of this legislation, [AT&T] supports a                                                               
charge  to  customers of  50  cents  a  month maximum,  which  is                                                               
reasonable given  the workload that  wireless calls  are creating                                                               
for  911  operators.   [AT&T]  would  like  the surcharge  to  be                                                               
equitable  for all  customers,  which is  why  the 50-cent  level                                                               
should  apply to  all municipalities.    [AT&T] understands  that                                                               
this would be different for  landline customers where the smaller                                                               
municipalities pay  a surcharge of  up to 75 cents;  however, the                                                               
technology and  service are very different  since wireless phones                                                               
are  mobile and  can be  used in  any municipality  to call  911.                                                               
Therefore, [AT&T]  thinks all wireless  customers should  pay the                                                               
same amount.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1185                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS, speaking  about cost recovery, said  this would only                                                               
apply  when  municipalities  are  in  a  position  to  offer  new                                                               
enhanced  911 services  for wireless  phones.   And  it has  been                                                               
noted that those services are  not available yet, but someday 911                                                               
operators  will  be  able  to  know the  [phone]  number  of  the                                                               
wireless  caller, the  cell site  connecting  the wireless  call,                                                               
and, eventually, the actual location  of the caller.  Since these                                                               
new  technologies  benefit the  public  at  large, [AT&T]  thinks                                                               
wireless carriers  should have a mechanism  for recovering costs.                                                               
The  bill  says  that  the  cost  recovery  will  be  allowed  as                                                               
specified by  the FCC,  and he pointed  out that  the legislation                                                               
cites the FCC order on the issue.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOUMANS  said  in  terms  of  actual  technology  solutions,                                                               
especially  the locator  technology, [AT&T]  is looking  at those                                                               
that would be  handset-based, such as a small chip  that would go                                                               
into a wireless  handset and the person could be  located using a                                                               
GPS satellite  system.  There  are also  network-based-systems in                                                               
which a  location can be triangulated.   He said it  is really up                                                               
to the  wireless carrier working  closely with the  911 operators                                                               
to come together on which technology solutions would work best.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1221                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO  asked:  If the  technology isn't currently                                                               
available, why should people be charged now?                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOUMANS  said  since  wireless   phone  users  are  creating                                                               
additional work for 911 operators,  there should be some revenues                                                               
received to help  defer some of those costs.   And when [AT&T] is                                                               
ready to deploy  these new services, wit normally  works with the                                                               
911 operators and  looks at the revenue available to  them to see                                                               
if  that would  actually  cover the  amount  needed to  implement                                                               
these  new technologies,  which  would depend  on  what level  of                                                               
surcharge is available.   In some cases, he  said, that surcharge                                                               
may cover the  cost of these new technologies,  or [the industry]                                                               
may  decide to  come  back  to the  legislature  and  ask for  an                                                               
additional surcharge;  however, "we"  will have  to wait  and see                                                               
what those  costs are  going to  be before doing  that.   For the                                                               
most  basic technology,  the ability  to get  [a person's]  phone                                                               
number  on  the   911  screen  as  well  as  the   cell  site  of                                                               
origination, [AT&T] has estimated that  it costs about 11.8 cents                                                               
per customer, per month.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS  said other  companies may  have a  different charge,                                                               
but that is what  it would be for AT&T wireless.   And when asked                                                               
how  transfer of  the payments  would work,  Mr. Youmans  replied                                                               
that [the  company] would  collect the  money from  the customer,                                                               
and the  customer would  get a line-item  bill.   [The surcharge]                                                               
comes to [the  company] and either it is remitted  to the state -                                                               
which then  remits it to the  municipalities, as is done  in some                                                               
states  -  or  [the  company]  remits it  directly  back  to  the                                                               
municipalities  as a  direct pass-through  of those  funds.   And                                                               
then it  is up  to the  911 operators  in terms  of how  they use                                                               
those funds;  in terms of ensuring  that [the money] is  used for                                                               
911 services, he said is a question best asked of them.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HALCRO asked:    Given  AT&T's existing  customer                                                               
base,  and based  on 50  cents per  month, what  type of  revenue                                                               
would this generate from your subscribers?                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1401                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOUMANS replied  that it  would be  based on  the number  of                                                               
subscribers, and,  for proprietary  reasons, [AT&T]  doesn't give                                                               
out  the  specific  number by  state;  however,  industrywide  in                                                               
Alaska there are  over 200,000 wireless customers.   So, he said,                                                               
the math could be figured from that information.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT  said in the  bill under the  landline [phone                                                               
service], he thought it had  to be remitted to the municipalities                                                               
within  60 days,  and there  is an  administrative fee,  which is                                                               
absorbed or picked up by the  hardwire companies, of a maximum of                                                               
$150  or  up to  that  amount.    Representative Kott  asked  Mr.                                                               
Youmans  about  the  date  at  which  this  provision  is  to  be                                                               
incorporated, and when the technology would be available.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS  explained that  the FCC has  said that  the wireless                                                               
carriers  are  allowed  to  recover  costs  if  a  cost  recovery                                                               
mechanism is put  into state law.  What this  means, for example,                                                               
is if  [the legislature]  approved a  surcharge, [AT&T]  would be                                                               
able to come back and recover  the cost of implementing these new                                                               
technologies.  He said [the  legislature] wouldn't be required to                                                               
reimburse [AT&T]  for its costs; that  is not a mandate  from the                                                               
FCC, but [the FCC] is saying that  it is allowed.  However, it is                                                               
something  [AT&T] would  advocate for  because this  is a  public                                                               
service whereby the  general public benefits, so it  is only fair                                                               
that costs are reimbursed.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1527                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS explained that the  [FCC] mandate says [carriers] are                                                               
already required  to provide  phase 1  services for  enhanced 911                                                               
that include  providing the  call-back number  and the  cell site                                                               
from which  that call originated; however,  [carriers] don't have                                                               
to  provide  that  unless  the  911  operator  requires  it,  and                                                               
obviously  [operators]  need  to  be capable  of  receiving  that                                                               
information  before it  can  be  provided for  them.   [AT&T]  is                                                               
providing  that  right now  in  a  number  of states  around  the                                                               
country.   [Carriers] were required  about a year ago  to provide                                                               
that  technological  capability, and  it  is  done when  the  911                                                               
operators request  it.   [Carriers] are  not required  to provide                                                               
the  phase 2  services, the  locator services,  until October  of                                                               
this year.   At  that point,  [carriers] will  work with  the 911                                                               
operators on  the technological solutions so  their systems match                                                               
and everything works as it should.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS said  there are also some rollout  dates depending on                                                               
whether there  is a handset solution  or a network solution.   In                                                               
October  of  this year,  [carriers]  will  be required  to  begin                                                               
rolling out those  services if requested.  [AT&T]  is very close,                                                               
he explained, in  terms of the locator  technology, although [the                                                               
company] has  not announced  what it is  yet, and  other carriers                                                               
haven't either, for the most part.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1614                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI sought verification  of her understanding that no                                                               
community  in  Alaska  is technologically  capable  of  receiving                                                               
phase 1, and certainly not phase 2 at this point.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS answered, "As far as  I know, and they certainly have                                                               
not requested [it] of us."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT asked  Mr. Youmans  if he  was referring  to                                                               
those  services   that  would  be  able   to  pinpoint  someone's                                                               
location.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS replied affirmatively.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked how, if he  has an OnStar system in his                                                               
car, someone  in Detroit could  know if his airbag  inflates, and                                                               
know where he is.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS  replied that  a GPS system  is probably  being used,                                                               
which  works by  satellite.    And when  asked  whether, if  that                                                               
service were  made available,  AT&T would have  to recall  all of                                                               
its telephones to  be retrofitted with a chip, he  said if [AT&T]                                                               
chose that particular solution, then  a chip or device within the                                                               
phone would have to be changed.   There are a number of different                                                               
ways  of doing  that, he  said; one  way is  to provide  it in  a                                                               
battery, so a person wouldn't have  to change the phone, just the                                                               
battery.   He pointed out  that people are changing  phones quite                                                               
often these  days because of  the advancements, so  most people's                                                               
phones don't last  longer than a year anyway.   He said [AT&T] is                                                               
looking for  a low-cost way  of providing these  technologies for                                                               
customers.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1711                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT  asked if [AT&T} offers  the prepaid cellular                                                               
disposable phones.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOUMANS  replied  affirmatively.   And  when  asked  how  [a                                                               
carrier]  would go  about collecting  a  fee, he  replied that  a                                                               
surcharge  couldn't be  collected,  since  [the carrier]  doesn't                                                               
bill that customer.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD  said  he  is  interested  in  the  $1.2                                                               
million that  could be raised  [through this legislation].   Will                                                               
there be any surpluses in this  system, he asked, and would there                                                               
be the possibility of lowering people's rates after that influx?                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1777                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOUMANS remarked  that  [AT&T] wouldn't  object  to a  lower                                                               
surcharge on customers, but [the  company] has taken the position                                                               
that it  would support up to  50 cents; however, if  there were a                                                               
proposal to lower that surcharge,  [AT&T] wouldn't oppose it.  In                                                               
terms of  whether there would  be any  surpluses or not,  he said                                                               
that would be a question best  asked of the 911 operators, taking                                                               
into account how they use funds.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD  said   he  understands  that  different                                                               
municipalities charge  different rates, from  35 up to  75 cents.                                                               
He asked for a reason for the disparity.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS  said he would  imagine that since  it is up  to each                                                               
municipality to  decide on  a surcharge,  it becomes  whatever is                                                               
felt to be appropriate to cover costs.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER said  he understood  that  the money  could                                                               
only  be  used for  the  911  system;  if  more is  raised,  then                                                               
[carriers]  would lower  the surcharge  rate for  the next  year.                                                               
And  when  asked  if  there  would  be  accounting  of  this,  he                                                               
responded  that  he thought  [carriers]  are  required to  do  an                                                               
annual audit.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG commented that  it seems ironic that most                                                               
of the  costs are  going to  fall on the  service providers.   He                                                               
asked Mr.  Youmans if he believes  his firm would deduct  or have                                                               
the right under  this bill to deduct the  cost of implementation,                                                               
and would then send the balance to the local area.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1890                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS  said [AT&T] would  only do  that upon moving  to the                                                               
enhanced  911  services;  a  mechanism  is  needed  for  that  in                                                               
legislation.   What this  legislation does,  he said,  is express                                                               
legislative intent,  which says  that when the  enhanced services                                                               
"roll out," [carriers]  would be allowed to recover  costs.  What                                                               
would probably be seen, he  said, would be additional legislation                                                               
that actually  puts that into  effect through an  added surcharge                                                               
to cover those  costs.  There could be a  determination made that                                                               
the 50 cents covers costs as  well as those of the 911 operators,                                                               
and in that  case, [carriers] would make  arrangements to recover                                                               
costs through each municipality.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if  the phase 2 locator requirement                                                               
from the FCC is what is considered the enhanced 911.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS responded that it would  be part of it, and the other                                                               
part  would be  the  caller phone  number and  the  cell site  of                                                               
origination.  And when asked if  there is a phase 3, he responded                                                               
in the negative.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  said if  it  is  going into  effect  in                                                               
October of this year, then legislation  is needed right now to do                                                               
it.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS  said before  that happens,  the 911  operators would                                                               
have   to   be   technologically  capable   of   receiving   that                                                               
information, and he imagined that  most of them wouldn't be ready                                                               
by October.   He  said he  wouldn't support  a surcharge  at this                                                               
point for technology that isn't ready yet.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG agreed,  but said  [the legislature]  is                                                               
trying to  pinpoint when that  is because legislators  don't have                                                               
the luxury of coming back until next January.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOUMANS commented  that the  911 operators  could be  asked,                                                               
although he thought the [legislature] would have time.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1998                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI said  in looking at the  legislative findings and                                                               
information on  cost recovery, "we  will require the  tracking as                                                               
well  [as]  allow  for  cost  recovery."   Isn't  that  really  a                                                               
separate issue  from the surcharge that  is in place now  for the                                                               
landlines,  she  asked,  and  [the  legislature]  is  essentially                                                               
asking the wireless [users] to [contribute to that service]?                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOUMANS  responded affirmatively  and  said  he thought  the                                                               
intent of the existing surcharge is  to pay for the workload that                                                               
is being created  right now for the 911 operators.   The only way                                                               
that the  existing 50 cents may  apply to the new  services is if                                                               
when rolling  out these new  services, it is determined  that the                                                               
50 cents  will cover  those new technologies,  both on  behalf of                                                               
the 911 operators and the  carriers, and then cost recovery would                                                               
be sought from the existing 50 cents at that point.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2049                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI  said it  seems  that  there are  two  different                                                               
issues  here.    There  is  the  existing  surcharge,  with  some                                                               
flexibility on  the landlines regarding  how much is  assessed on                                                               
that  surcharge;  wireless  is  saying  it  will  sign  on  to  a                                                               
surcharge  providing that  it is  just 50  cents.   She said  she                                                               
isn't following Mr.  Youmans' point in stating  that the wireless                                                               
[phones] actually contribute to  the additional work because they                                                               
are  mobile, so  if one  is going  to be  a cost  user, then  one                                                               
should  be a  cost payer.   She  said she  isn't certain  why one                                                               
shouldn't be  subjected to the  same cost as a  municipality that                                                               
is charging  65 cents, and  why is should  be limited to  just 50                                                               
cents.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS  used an  example.   He said if  there is  a wireless                                                               
customer  who  lives  in  Anchorage,  but  is  in  Fairbanks  and                                                               
witnesses a car accident and uses  the phone to call an aid unit,                                                               
that wireless call goes to a  911 operator in Fairbanks; the same                                                               
is  true of  a Fairbanks  customer who  travels to  Anchorage and                                                               
uses it there.  The workload  is spread around the whole state by                                                               
a  variety   of  wireless  users;  however,   under  the  current                                                               
structure,  the  Anchorage  wireless  user would  pay  50  cents,                                                               
whereas the Fairbanks  user could pay 75 cents,  even though both                                                               
are taxing the 911 system wherever they go in the state.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2153                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI said she  disagrees philosophically that wireless                                                               
should somehow  be treated  differently from  landline [service].                                                               
She said  she appreciates  the fact that  a mobile  instrument is                                                               
being talking about, but she  doesn't understand why there should                                                               
be an exemption  from that, because if a person  didn't have that                                                               
wireless phone  moving around, there  wouldn't be  the additional                                                               
usage on the system.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER said  this issue  was raised  in the  House                                                               
Community  and   Regional  Affairs   Standing  Committee   as  an                                                               
amendment to make it a flat  50 cents; however, it failed because                                                               
the  smaller  cities  and communities  wanted  that  flexibility.                                                               
[The members] wanted to keep it  the same as for landlines, which                                                               
is up  to 75 cents  for a population  of under 100,000;  and they                                                               
wanted to  have flexibility in  the smaller areas where  there is                                                               
less of a population paying for it.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2207                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TIM  BIGGANE,  Director,  Emergency Operations,  Fairbanks  North                                                               
Star Borough (FNSB), via teleconference,  stated that the FNSB is                                                               
100 percent  in support of  the bill.   Part of  his department's                                                               
responsibility  is  to  maintain  and operate  the  enhanced  911                                                               
system in  five different Public Safety  Answering Points (PSAPs)                                                               
or dispatch  centers.   The borough in  1997 began  collecting 75                                                               
cents [per  month, per customer]  when the first  legislation was                                                               
passed, and it  was changed to 65 cents once  the calculation and                                                               
bids  came  in.   The  initial  cost  for implementation  of  the                                                               
landline  phone system  was  $1.3  million.   With  the 65  cents                                                               
currently  charged  on the  system,  [FNSB]  built in  a  10-year                                                               
replacement system  based on technology, although  the [FNSB] was                                                               
probably off  by three  years and  will have  to replace  them in                                                               
year seven, he said.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BIGGANE said  he had  met with  ACS, and  one of  the things                                                               
being looked at in Fairbanks  is the consolidated dispatch center                                                               
where all  of the units  will be brought together  to incorporate                                                               
the phase  2-technology.  He said  he was given a  bid price from                                                               
one vendor  of $575,000;  so, he said,  there are  some [reasons]                                                               
why this surcharge is needed early.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BIGGANE said the surcharge  currently goes for maintenance of                                                               
the equipment; the  data upkeep with the  landline phone company;                                                               
and  funding of  the long-term  replacement, the  capital program                                                               
which this  bill will  have to  incorporate if  this is  going to                                                               
last more than a couple of years.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2293                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BIGGANE explained  that cell phones are  currently 35 percent                                                               
of the  call volume at  the dispatch  centers.  This  bill allows                                                               
for  cell phone  technology; phase  1 is  already implemented  in                                                               
Fairbanks  through  ACS,  and  the   [phone]  number  is  already                                                               
received from  the borough's cell  phones, which will  be written                                                               
in a letter  to AT&T.  The FCC phase-2  requirement, according to                                                               
what he has  been reading, has an October deadline  for the phone                                                               
company  to have  begun enacting  a system.   In  [Fairbanks], he                                                               
explained,  there is  talk  of installing  cell  towers, and  the                                                               
bidding  process  has  begun  to   see  if  [FNSB]  is  going  to                                                               
[contribute] technology.   Until HB  186 came up,  there wouldn't                                                               
have  been   a  system  to   pay  for   it.    During   the  last                                                               
[legislation],  [telephone   companies]  got  the   50-cent  flat                                                               
charge; [AT&T] is against that and  would like to see it adjusted                                                               
by the local municipality that has  to provide the service in the                                                               
long run.   The  cost recovery  needs to  be identified,  and the                                                               
current cost  was adjusted  down to  65 cents.   If [FNSB]  had a                                                               
surplus, then it could be adjusted up or down.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BIGGANE said [FNSB] did make  an impact in 2000 when $200,000                                                               
had to be spent to upgrade  technology purchased in 1996 for year                                                               
[2000  computer-related changes]  Y2K.   There  was  a reason  to                                                               
building this fund  for capital replacement, and  [FNSB] was able                                                               
to absorb  that cost.  The  GPS technology in phase  2 will allow                                                               
[a person's  location] to be  pinpointed.  And he  explained that                                                               
the docket out on the FCC's  web site is good for explaining what                                                               
this  is  all  about,  and how  the  difference  baseline  versus                                                               
(indisc.) will  have to come into  compliance.  He asked  for the                                                               
committee's support of the bill.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2380                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked:   Are we getting out in  front of where we                                                               
need to  be if  we don't  know what  these cost  recovery charges                                                               
are?   If the respective municipalities  implement these charges,                                                               
and later it is [discovered] that  the costs are in excess of the                                                               
50  cents, then  [the  issue]  will have  to  come  up again  and                                                               
legislation will have to be implemented.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BIGGANE said he doesn't believe  so.  The initial cost so far                                                               
on  the FNSB  is  going  to be  $550,000;  there  are no  capital                                                               
programs going along with this, so  the earlier this is in place,                                                               
[the earlier] the fund can be  built.  Wireless [phone users] pay                                                               
nothing right now  towards 911, and the  landlines telephones are                                                               
picking up  the phase 1 requirement  because it is the  same type                                                               
of technology.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BIGGANE expressed  that  the phone  companies  will have  to                                                               
start selling phones with these  capabilities starting October 1.                                                               
The technology will  be phased in over a  five-year cycle whereby                                                               
25  percent of  new handsets  activated in  the industry  will be                                                               
automatic-location-identifier-capable  (ALI-capable) by  December                                                               
31,  2001;  50 percent  by  June  30,  2002;  and 95  percent  by                                                               
December 31, 2005.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2455                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BIGGANE  exclaimed that it  would take  a couple of  years to                                                               
phase in  because phones won't  be replaced;  it will take  a few                                                               
years  to phase  in  throughout the  whole market.    He said  he                                                               
believed there were about 20,000 to 25,000 phones in Fairbanks.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  asked if  FNSB received any  Y2K capital                                                               
money for the 911 upgrade.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BIGGANE  replied  that  Fairbanks  didn't  receive  any  Y2K                                                               
upgrade  money; the  replacement  was taken  out  of the  capital                                                               
fund, and [FNSB]  went after the manufacturer  and received about                                                               
60 percent.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-46, SIDE B                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BIGGANE  explained  that  [FNSB]  has  been  collecting  the                                                               
surcharge since 1996, and $650,000  is currently projected at the                                                               
end of the  fiscal year end.   When asked to verify  that the Y2K                                                               
upgrade  hadn't been  budgeted  because it  was  assumed that  it                                                               
would be  taken care of by  the vendor, Mr. Biggane  replied that                                                               
it  was part  of  the requirement  of the  bid  that didn't  come                                                               
through.  Fairbanks  North Star Borough had to fix  it before Y2K                                                               
came, and  was successful, but  only 65  percent of the  cost was                                                               
collected.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2436                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TIM  ROGERS,  Legislative  Program Coordinator,  Municipality  of                                                               
Anchorage  (MOA),   via  teleconference,  said   Lieutenant  Bill                                                               
Gifford  and  Keith with  the  Anchorage  Police Department,  and                                                               
Theresa  Hillhouse with  the  Municipal  Attorneys' office,  were                                                               
online.  He stated that there  are two issues:  first, roughly 25                                                               
percent  of  [MOA's]  call volume  comes  from  cellular  phones,                                                               
although cell  phones are not  contributing anything  towards the                                                               
911 system;  and second, [MOA]  needs to  "ramp up" for  phase 2,                                                               
which  will provide  911  [service] for  wireless  systems to  be                                                               
available by October.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ROGERS, regarding  the question  of cost  and the  municipal                                                               
budget for  911, replied that  landlines currently get  around $1                                                               
million  a  year  in  911  surcharges,  and  the  total  cost  of                                                               
operating the  911 system is  $2.4 million a year,  not including                                                               
capital costs.   Two bond issues  will be before the  voters, and                                                               
there  is  approximately  $1.5 million  per  system  in  upgrades                                                               
[needed] for the 911 system.   The Municipality of Anchorage is a                                                               
long way from making any surplus funds from the 911 surcharge.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 2344                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER asked  about  [cell phone  time and  space]                                                               
resellers.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROGERS replied  that he understood that  [resellers] would be                                                               
responsible for the surcharge as well.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG said  he is  concerned about  having the                                                               
wireless provider  receiving some reimbursement, rather  than the                                                               
municipality or  the 911 provider,  in a relationship.   He asked                                                               
how that would  happen if there was a cost  recovery provision in                                                               
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2288                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
THERESA HILLHOUSE, Assistant  Municipal Attorney, Civil Division,                                                               
Municipality of Anchorage Department  of Law, via teleconference,                                                               
said  the reason  the  cost  recovery provision  was  put in  the                                                               
initial  section  of   the  bill  was  to  give   notice  to  the                                                               
legislature that  a new  911 enhanced system  will be  coming for                                                               
wireless phones.  It will be  more expensive, and as part of that                                                               
expense, she  explained, the  municipalities will  be reimbursing                                                               
the telephone companies for assistance  in being able to identify                                                               
the  phone numbers  and the  locations of  the wireless  callers.                                                               
The current  bill deals with  recovery to the  municipalities for                                                               
the additional calls to the 911  system by wireless, and to start                                                               
equipping   the  911   systems  to   have  the   technologies  so                                                               
interfacing can happen  with the local telephone  companies to be                                                               
up to speed with phase 1 and phase 2.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG asked  Mr.  Rogers if  the $2.4  million                                                               
that he had mentioned was for  911 operations or for the enhanced                                                               
911 [system], and whether there is a distinction.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROGERS  replied that they  are one and  the same.   The total                                                               
cost for operating the 911 system  is $2.4 million.  He clarified                                                               
that landline phones are all enhanced.   And when asked to verify                                                               
that  the $2.4  million is  for  all 911  services, he  responded                                                               
affirmatively  and added  that it  is  for dispatch  only.   When                                                               
asked if  the original 911  surcharge was for  enhanced services,                                                               
or  just  for  911,  Mr.   Rogers  responded  that  the  original                                                               
surcharge was for the enhanced  911 system, and he confirmed that                                                               
it provides [site location information].                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated  that [MOA] is trying  to cover 40                                                               
percent of the "nut" with the surcharge.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROGERS  affirmed that and  said it  is at the  current level,                                                               
which doesn't include equipment acquisition costs.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2170                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI returned  to the  issue of  cost recovery.   She                                                               
said the  gentleman from Fairbanks  indicated that  costs haven't                                                               
been  identified.   Mr. Youmans  from AT&T,  she said,  indicated                                                               
that [AT&T's] cost was 11.8 cents  for the enhanced service.  She                                                               
said she sees  Section 1 of the bill as  being very separate from                                                               
this  surcharge,  whether at  50  cents  or  75  cents.   In  one                                                               
section, [the  bill] says that it  is known that there  are going                                                               
to be  some additional  costs associated  with this  service, and                                                               
cost  recovery  will be  allowed  for,  without really  having  a                                                               
handle on what is being signed off  on.  But the decision is from                                                               
some general findings, she pointed out,  and then the rest of the                                                               
legislation  deals  with the  specific  surcharges.   She  added:                                                               
saying that  wireless customer  should be  assessed 50  cents now                                                               
for every  phone number, and  next year  or the following  year -                                                               
when  phase 1  and phase  2 systems  are online  - the  surcharge                                                               
could  be  50 cents  plus  whatever  it  is that  the  customer's                                                               
provider has now  identified to be the cost  associated with this                                                               
tracking service?                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2088                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS explained  that the 11.8 cents is the  cost for phase                                                               
1, and AT&T  hasn't assessed what the costs will  be for phase 2.                                                               
He clarified that  phase 1 includes the call-back  number and the                                                               
cell site  of origination.   He said  [AT&T] wouldn't be  able to                                                               
recoup costs  for customers beyond  what the surcharge  allows by                                                               
the state.   The maximum surcharge  allowed would be 50  cents in                                                               
this bill  for the  larger municipalities, and  75 cents  for the                                                               
smaller  ones.   The only  way  to recoup  costs is  out of  that                                                               
existing  surcharge; customers  wouldn't  be able  to be  charged                                                               
beyond that.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI  said the  legislative  findings  and Section  1                                                               
don't allow one to come back  to the legislature and say that the                                                               
intent  by these  legislative findings  is to  allow recovery  of                                                               
associated costs,  so in  addition to  the 50  cents, there  is a                                                               
[request] for whatever the identified costs are.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROGERS stated  that this couldn't be done, and  said the cost                                                               
recovery would come from the existing surcharge.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2020                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HILLHOUSE  verified that  the  intent  language is  separate                                                               
language to  clarify the two  types of enhanced 911  systems that                                                               
may be used  by wireless systems and that will  be [available] in                                                               
the future.   Any cost  recovery that  is given to  the telephone                                                               
companies, she  explained, is  as required by  the FCC  ruling in                                                               
this case.   "We"  will be working  with the  telephone companies                                                               
and all the local 911 [operators]  to figure out what their costs                                                               
are.   The  enhanced 911  centers also  have their  own costs  to                                                               
equip  their systems  to interface  with  the telephone  company.                                                               
And when  asked if she  would agree  that cost recovery  would be                                                               
limited  to this  50-cent surcharge,  she  responded that  [AT&T]                                                               
gets an administrative fee from that 50-cent surcharge.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he wants  to make sure that there is                                                               
an expectation of recoupment for  capital costs for the provider.                                                               
He  said  [the  committee]  has the  11.8-cent  figure  from  Mr.                                                               
Youmans  for phase  1, but  then  there is  [the possibility]  of                                                               
future legislation.   And ACS brought up the issue  that if there                                                               
is  short  payment on  a  monthly  bill,  how does  one  allocate                                                               
between the surcharge and the balance of the bill?                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER responded  that [it is dealt]  with the same                                                               
as with landline [services].                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1962                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG expressed  concern  about  the issue  of                                                               
cost recovery and the expectations.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOUMANS  explained that  in  other  states, when  they  have                                                               
gotten to the point where the  911 operators are ready to request                                                               
the phase-1  service, they  sit down  with the  wireless carriers                                                               
and determine  what the costs are.   If those are  covered by the                                                               
existing surcharge,  then they  are fine, but  if not,  then they                                                               
usually  come  together   to  the  legislature  to   ask  for  an                                                               
additional surcharge in  order to cover costs; the  same would be                                                               
true of  phase 2, he  said.   [Wireless carriers] would  sit down                                                               
and work together with the  911 operators to determine what those                                                               
costs are,  to ensure that they  are fair and reasonable,  and if                                                               
costs aren't covered by the  existing surcharge, then an increase                                                               
would be requested.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  asked Mr.  Youmans if AT&T  would expect                                                               
capital cost recovery.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS responded affirmatively.   He said [AT&T] needs to be                                                               
able to  recover the  cost of  providing the  service.   And when                                                               
asked  about the  11.8  cents also  being  recouped, Mr.  Youmans                                                               
replied that  the 11.8 cents would  provide adequate remuneration                                                               
for   phase  1,   which  is   what  [AT&T]   is  charging   other                                                               
municipalities around the country for cost recovery.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  asked  someone  to direct  him  to  the                                                               
location  in  the bill  where  it  states  that it  is  currently                                                               
allowable, other  than in  Section 5,  which allows  [a telephone                                                               
company] an administrative fee.   He asked if there is recoupment                                                               
[language] under current statute.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1810                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BIGGANE   surmised  that  the   phone  companies   would  be                                                               
collecting their  capital invested  through the annual  cost that                                                               
is  charged to  each  one of  the municipalities.    There is  an                                                               
occurring debt of maintenance cost,  system maintenance cost, and                                                               
trunk-line cost that is paid  in to maintain operation (indisc.).                                                               
He  said he  believed  that  is when  "they"  amortize out  their                                                               
capital.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER concurred.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BIGGANE  pointed out that  the 50 or  75 cents is  to operate                                                               
the system, but also is used to pay the bill for the operation.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  asked Mr. Youmans  about her  concerns regarding                                                               
the 50  versus the 75 cents.   She asked:   Recognizing that cost                                                               
recovery will  be sought  for phase  1, why  wouldn't one  want a                                                               
surcharge as high  as the municipalities would be able  to go, to                                                               
ensure that the  cost recovery would come  within that surcharge,                                                               
and that  one wouldn't have to  come back to the  legislature for                                                               
an increase in the surcharge?                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1730                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS replied that [AT&T] is  trying to keep the charges as                                                               
low as  possible, for as long  as possible for customers.   Given                                                               
what  this surcharge  will initially  be used  for, which  is the                                                               
basic 911  operations, [AT&T]  thinks 50 cents  is adequate.   He                                                               
said he thought  there was a lot of work  ahead to determine what                                                               
those costs are for the  future technologies, and the work should                                                               
be done  first before adding  surcharges to customers.   And upon                                                               
being  asked when  he  would anticipate  coming  back before  the                                                               
legislature seeking associated costs,  Mr. Youmans stated that it                                                               
would depend  on the discussions  with the 911 operators  and how                                                               
close they are to being able to request those services.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  said [the committee]  heard from  Fairbanks this                                                               
afternoon that  phase 1 is  implemented and that [FNSB]  is going                                                               
to be  making notification  that it  is ready to  go, and  is now                                                               
saving up for phase  2.  It sounds as if  [FNSB] is pretty close,                                                               
she said, and Anchorage might be pretty close too.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1679                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL GIFFORD, Lieutenant, Anchorage  Police Department (APD), via                                                               
teleconference,   stated  that   [APD]  is   getting  close   and                                                               
anticipates sending out letters soon.   [The APD] is also working                                                               
with  the computer-aided  dispatch  center, the  provider of  the                                                               
system, to  find out what  is needed  by the October  deadline of                                                               
this year.  He  didn't know if [APD] could make  it by that time,                                                               
but said  it is  critical.  For  example, he said,  a year  ago a                                                               
woman was  being raped.   She was able to  hit 911 on  her phone;                                                               
she was  able to give  some description as  to where she  was and                                                               
[the  APD] was  able to  get to  her and  intercept that  rape in                                                               
progress.   Had  this system  been in  place then,  he exclaimed,                                                               
[APD]  probably  would have  cut  that  time  down  by 10  or  15                                                               
minutes.   In that  kind of  situation, he  emphasized, 10  or 15                                                               
minutes is a lot of time.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  said if  the  bill  moves out  of  this                                                               
committee with  an expectation of future  adjustments, he doesn't                                                               
think  one   could  come   back  next   year  and   have  another                                                               
[discussion]; therefore, [the committee]  needs to make sure that                                                               
this is adequate.   He asked if there is anything  in the bill or                                                               
in existing law that allows for cost [recuperation].                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1600                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked the sponsor about Section 1 of the bill.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER deferred the  question to Theresa Hillhouse,                                                               
municipal attorney.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. HILLHOUSE  said the  intent language was  put in  because Mr.                                                               
Youmans   wanted  to   make   sure  that   there   was  a   clear                                                               
[understanding]  of  the  difference  between  the  existing  911                                                               
system that wireless [customers] would  be using and a future 911                                                               
system  that is  being worked  towards for  implementation.   Mr.                                                               
Youmans also requested  notice that, in this  enhanced 911 system                                                               
where [the  phone companies] had helped  [the municipalities] get                                                               
both  the  phone   number  and  the  location,   that  there  was                                                               
recognition  and  some costs  recovery  by  the phone  companies.                                                               
"We" wanted  to give [the legislature]  a "heads up" as  to where                                                               
it is at this point, as well as where it is going in the future.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1538                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MURKOWKSI  said there  is  concern  about signing  off  on                                                               
something that needs to be revisited  as early as next year.  She                                                               
said there is an indefinite  and uncertain expense out there that                                                               
will be coming online soon.   The surcharge aspect of it needs to                                                               
be  addressed  right  now,  she exclaimed;  it's  just  the  cost                                                               
recovery component that seems to be concerning everyone.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. HILLHOUSE  remarked that Chair  Murkowski is correct  in that                                                               
"we" would have  liked to have brought a bill  to the legislature                                                               
that  could  have incorporated  phase  1  and  phase 2,  but  the                                                               
capabilities aren't available  right now to judge  what that cost                                                               
will be,  which is why this  proposal was brought forward.   With                                                               
the monies from  the surcharge, which will  go towards (indisc.),                                                               
this is bringing the 911 system  up to speed so it can interface.                                                               
The numbers weren't available to  be able to give [the committee]                                                               
the information and make a  more accurate assessment of what will                                                               
happen in phase 1 and phase 2.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1464                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS  stated that when the  time comes to offer  these new                                                               
technologies,  [AT&T]  would  like  to   be  able  to  seek  cost                                                               
recovery, which  is allowed by  the FCC  order.  The  language in                                                               
the bill  just says that the  State of Alaska will  allow the new                                                               
technologies  to [progress],  and  by  allowing that,  [telephone                                                               
companies] certainly  have [the  legislature's] support  for this                                                               
surcharge.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if cost recovery is in the bill.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI answered  in  the negative,  other  than in  the                                                               
legislative findings.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. HILLHOUSE stated  that the cost recovery talked  about in the                                                               
introductory section is  the cost recovery for phase  1 and phase                                                               
2; Anchorage  is going through phase  1 right now, she  said, and                                                               
is not up to that issue yet.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1387                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  made a  recommendation that the  bill be                                                               
amended  to include  a cost  recovery provision,  and allow  that                                                               
[portion of  the bill]  to move  forward.   He said  he seriously                                                               
doubted much  headway could  be made  in adjusting  the surcharge                                                               
numbers at  this juncture,  but said there  should be  money that                                                               
provides for it;  there will be few "bites at  the apple" because                                                               
a bill  isn't done every year  to adjust things to  keep everyone                                                               
happy.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
STEVE  O'CONNOR, Chair,  Kenai Peninsula  Borough 911  Committee,                                                               
via teleconference,  stated that  his committee was  appointed by                                                               
the borough and  represents a cross-section of  the public safety                                                               
users within  the borough.   He said  [the borough's]  cell phone                                                               
volume has gone  from 5 percent in the last  five years to around                                                               
50 percent.  He reiterated  that no [caller] location information                                                               
is provided  currently when a  cell phone  is used.   Many people                                                               
using cell phones don't know where  they are, and they are unable                                                               
to  give  clear directions,  so  there  are significant  response                                                               
delays by public safety agencies.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  O'CONNOR  stated  that  the  [Kenai  Peninsula  Borough  911                                                               
Committee]   has  been   in   discussions   with  ACS   regarding                                                               
implementing phase 1 and phase 2.   [ACS] has given his committee                                                               
a cost  proposal for capital  in excess of $300,000  to implement                                                               
the two phases.   [Kenai's situation] probably  sounds similar to                                                               
Anchorage's  in  that  the   Kenai  Peninsula  Borough  currently                                                               
collects 75 cents for the  land hardwire lines, which cover about                                                               
45 percent  of the 911  operation; however, this  doesn't include                                                               
any capital costs.   The borough is subsidizing  about 55 percent                                                               
of the 911  operations, so the bill at the  75-cent level is seen                                                               
as a way  to help offset and recover some  of the capital expense                                                               
currently being  faced for implementation.   [The Kenai Peninsula                                                               
Borough 911 Committee]  is moving ahead with that  in the current                                                               
budget  process;  it  has  some monies  allocated  to  start  the                                                               
implementation process, he explained.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. O'CONNOR  encouraged the House  Labor and  Commerce Committee                                                               
to  keep the  bill at  75 cents  per line.   As  far as  the cost                                                               
recovery goes,  he said, he  would see each  municipal government                                                               
dealing  with its  vendors, and  if there  are associated  costs,                                                               
then vendors  are going to come  to the municipal operator  or to                                                               
whomever  in the  911 system  and negotiate  that cost  recovery.                                                               
The cost  per line per  month that  is recovered by  the wireless                                                               
companies should  come back  to the  municipal governments  to be                                                               
used  to pay  for those  cost-recovery  procedures.   He said  he                                                               
couldn't see the wireless vendors  taking their cost recovery out                                                               
of  that particular  surcharge.   The technology  for phase  1 is                                                               
here, he  said, and the  [Kenai Peninsula Borough  911 Committee]                                                               
is moving  toward this and  phase 2 as  soon as it  is available.                                                               
Recently,  he   announced,  the  [Kenai  Peninsula   Borough  911                                                               
Committee] has received  estimates in excess of  $300,000 just to                                                               
get this implemented.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1143                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked  Mr. O'Connor when the Kenai  area would be                                                               
ready to go online with phase 1.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. O'CONNOR stated that [Kenai]  is doing some software upgrades                                                               
this week  as the beginning  of [phase  1], and a  two-year phase                                                               
was figured into the 911  budget for the Kenai Peninsula Borough.                                                               
If monies are available through  the budget July 1, he explained,                                                               
the  first half  of it  would start  this fiscal  year, with  the                                                               
second half next  fiscal year; this is what  is being recommended                                                               
to the mayor, he added.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1099                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  asked  Ms. Hillhouse,  as  a drafter  of                                                               
the legislation, if anything in  statute allows for cost recovery                                                               
or if it merely [provides  for] the local telephone exchanges and                                                               
the 911 service provider.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HILLHOUSE responded  that the  FCC ruling  mentioned in  the                                                               
intent language  [in the bill] is  where the issue was  raised in                                                               
the first place;  [the FCC] understands that it is  going to be a                                                               
much more  complicated system and will  require interfacing local                                                               
governments with  telephone companies.   She clarified  that this                                                               
particular FCC case makes a  ruling requiring telephone companies                                                               
to  provide  these  services to  local  communities,  giving  the                                                               
identification number  and the location  on the  wireless caller.                                                               
When  [the FCC]  dictated  that telephone  companies  have to  do                                                               
this, it also dictated that  there be an understanding that there                                                               
is a  cost involved and  local governments  are going to  have to                                                               
deal with cost recovery.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. HILLHOUSE said how recovery of  costs is handled is more on a                                                               
state-by-state basis.   And when asked if that is  because of the                                                               
ruling in  the FCC  docket, she  answered affirmatively  and said                                                               
that is what dictates this whole process.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG said  the docket  is provided;  he asked                                                               
whether cost recovery and the  mechanism [for realizing that] are                                                               
laid out there.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HILLHOUSE responded  that it  gives options  to the  various                                                               
states  and local  governments on  how it  is done.   There  is a                                                               
variety, she  explained, everything  from a statewide  trust fund                                                               
to  local localities  charging surcharges  from  $0.35 to  $2.35.                                                               
These are some  model legislations starting to appear  in some of                                                               
the states.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0976                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI expressed  that in the FCC  ruling, Ms. Hillhouse                                                               
had said that it allows for various  options.  She asked:  Are we                                                               
defining  that  option  by  the   statement  in  the  legislative                                                               
finding?                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HILLHOUSE responded  that the  legislative finding  has been                                                               
made very general  to just recognize that there are  two types of                                                               
enhanced  911 systems,  and when  the enhanced  911 system  comes                                                               
onboard it will give a person  not only the phone number but also                                                               
the location.  There is an  understanding that there are going to                                                               
be more  costs involved  and that  the local  telephone companies                                                               
need to be worked with to pay for some of those costs.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI said she isn't  sure that the legislative finding                                                               
is clearly  stated, and suggested  it is the  committee's biggest                                                               
problem.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HILLHOUSE  apologized  and  said "we"  wanted  to  give  the                                                               
committee a  preview of what was  coming, so this language  was a                                                               
compromise.   The cost recovery,  the different systems,  and the                                                               
definitions were all mentioned, she said.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0895                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked  whether it is what is  to come, in                                                               
terms  of  the  future  technology,  or what  is  coming  to  the                                                               
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. HILLHOUSE  replied that it  is an  issue that "we"  are still                                                               
trying  to work  out.   The  local governments  will  be able  to                                                               
assess their  costs and how  that payment will be  handled; right                                                               
now there  isn't a good handle  on exactly what that  is going to                                                               
be.   The  surcharge  is  needed now  so  tracking  of the  whole                                                               
process can take place to figure out what the costs are.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  said the  bill needs an  effective date.                                                               
He would like  to see a legal opinion about  whether this finding                                                               
is adequate; he  questioned whether [the issue  of] cost recovery                                                               
needs to  be recited in state  statute, or if the  FCC docket can                                                               
be relied upon.   He said he  just wants to make sure  that it is                                                               
available so  "they" don't come  back to the legislature  and ask                                                               
for it.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0820                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER  verified that Ms. Hillhouse  and Ms. Tamara                                                               
Cook  [drafter  of the  legislation  from  Legislative Legal  and                                                               
Research Services]  had worked for  weeks on this paragraph.   He                                                               
asked if Ms. Cook was comfortable with that language.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HILLHOUSE  replied  that  Ms.  Cook  was  the  one  who  had                                                               
suggested  moving  the  legislative  intent  language.    It  was                                                               
previously  under  the definitions  section  of  an enhanced  911                                                               
system, to  not confuse  the statute  by talking  about something                                                               
that was to come in the  future, and Ms. Cook's suggestion was to                                                               
move it to the introductory language, as a compromise.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG said  [the bill  language] assumes  that                                                               
one has  to come to the  legislature to pass another  bill, which                                                               
doesn't make sense.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI pointed  out that  if  the legislative  findings                                                               
just dealt with the surcharge issue,  there wouldn't be a need to                                                               
come back unless the surcharge rate needed to be raised.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HILLHOUSE said  it would  be fine,  but part  of this  was a                                                               
compromise with AT&T and the  telephone companies; there is a lot                                                               
of legislative  intent in  this language  that explains  the cost                                                               
recovery.     Maybe  [the  telephone  companies]   wouldn't  mind                                                               
deleting that first section.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0711                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS  said [AT&T] would have  an issue with that.   [AT&T]                                                               
is  looking for  recognition from  the legislature  that when  it                                                               
rolls  out  these new  enhanced  services,  it  will be  able  to                                                               
recover costs,  which is basically  what that section says.   And                                                               
so  as  long  as  that  recognition  is  in  place  and  will  be                                                               
available,  then [AT&T]  can support  the  surcharge proposed  in                                                               
this   legislation.     [AT&T's]  concern   is  that   [telephone                                                               
companies]  get  the  additional   surcharge,  but  there  is  no                                                               
recognition of recovering costs, which  is what [AT&T] is looking                                                               
for.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI  asked  whether  the   FCC  ruling  set  out  an                                                               
allowance for cost recovery for providers.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS said  only if there is a mechanism  in place in state                                                               
law that allows it.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  agreed, but said  [the committee] needs  a legal                                                               
opinion  on  this  because she  isn't  convinced  that  something                                                               
contained  in  legislative  findings   is  allowing  recovery  by                                                               
statute or regulation.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said "you just  hung yourself on your own                                                               
petard," when  saying that state  authority is needed to  be able                                                               
to recover  costs.   The findings don't  give that;  only statute                                                               
does, he said,  which is why he  was troubled.  He  said he would                                                               
like the  committee to look into  this, as the last  committee of                                                               
referral.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOUMANS said  if  that is  the  case, then  that  is a  real                                                               
concern of [AT&T's].                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0628                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  said there  should be a  statutory right                                                               
for  cost recovery  that  makes it  consistent  with the  federal                                                               
docket,  and everyone  is in  agreement with  that, he  remarked,                                                               
including the 911 service providers.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOUMANS commented  that [AT&T] would support a  change to put                                                               
that in statute, if that is what is needed.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  said she thinks  that there is  an understanding                                                               
that  if  cost  recovery  is  going to  be  allowed  for  in  the                                                               
legislative findings, then  there is some question  as to whether                                                               
or not that is sufficient.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG emphasized that it is not law.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI said there would  be a conversation with Ms. Cook                                                               
about  this, along  with the  sponsor, in  an attempt  to get  it                                                               
figured out.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
[HB 186 was held over]                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the  House                                                                
Labor and Commerce Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at                                                                  
5:50 p.m.                                                                                                                       

Document Name Date/Time Subjects